Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

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Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

Jerome King-2
Yesterday I passed on an alert that the Calculator application was not accurate and don’t depend upon it
One member forwarded the message to a family member who under took to tell her that Siri didn’t have an issue 

But I was reporting on the Calculator application (both in iOS and macOS). below if my response. 
Tidbits subscribers won’t see the images but I think I’ve described them enough

I think the issue is BIGGER than % display. I recommend you NOT use Calculator except to confirm what you knew already

Jerry

My response to her reply


I have been bothered by this for many months  It is not a recent issue but I use the Calculator application on my Mac, not Siri.  I have problems talking to females? (or is it listening to?)

I had assumed that I didn’t know how to use the Calculator appellation

I keyed in 5 followed by the / key and then hit  100 = I got .05 which in the old world is 5%
Even my old mind says that is accurate. And it used to be 5%

I then went to calculator and hit the % button The display is 0.00005
I expected the result to be 5 meaning that I converted to %.  But I got 
So, INSTEAD, of multiplying by 100 the application divided by 100. AND it didn’t indicate % as the display format

So the macOS application is screwed up and it has been that way for many, many months

The % symbol is NOT an operator.  Unfortunately it is also an conversion that is wrong

I’ve not tried ºF to ºC but probably worth testing


TO REPEAT,  I have been having this in macOS for a very long time.  It is NOT unique to iOS

Apple needs to buy a HP calculator and use that to test their software. 

Jerry


From my financial type brother.

Sent from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:


Subject: Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

Tried this.   Siri interprets 100/20% as (100/20)% and shows the parentheses on screen.    Based on solving within parentheses first, the calculation result of .05 is correct.  More of a language issue than calculation.  That said, it’s good to know of possible misinterpretation. I asked Siri to solve 100 divided by .2 and she returns 500.  

Sent from my iPhone

IF your Apple products are at the most current update, the Calculator app (Apple’s built in application) may not be accurate.

For sure, problem relates to percentages, fractions but impossible to know how much else is wrong.

\Don’t trust the calculator on your Mac or iDevice 

Jerry

Apple iOS 11.2.6 Has A Third Significant Problem

<a href="x-msg://1/companies/apple/" target="_self" rel="nofollow" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Verdana; color: rgb(65, 110, 210); max-width: 100%; text-decoration: underline;" class="">Apple <a href="x-msg://1/companies/apple/" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Verdana; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(65, 110, 210); max-width: 100%; text-decoration: underline;" class="">AAPL -0.96%<a href="x-msg://1/companies/apple/" class="preview fs-text-xxs negative" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Verdana; color: rgb(65, 110, 210); max-width: 100%; text-decoration: underline;">AAPL -0.96%

’s iOS 11.2.6 problems continue. On the surface, this is a seemingly minor update but it has caused a spate of issues and the strangest and potentially most serious one has now been topped… 

A deep dive from PiunikaWeb has found iOS 11.2..6 has problems with math. As such you shouldn’t trust your iPhone, iPad or iPod touch to do important calculations. The problem also extends to Macs running the latest release MacOS 10.13.3.

Apple iOS 11.2.6

Credit for spotting the issue first goes to former Apple employee Ryan Jones, who tweeted that calculations involving percentages are broken. He gives the example of asking: 100/20%. The answer should be 500, but instead Apple will tell you it’s 0.05. 

But PiunikaWeb’s Aparajita Sharma found the situation gets more complicated. In iOS 11.2.6 asking the calculation from Siri gives the incorrect 0.05 answer, but doing it manually on the iOS calculator will give you 500. MacOS 10.13.3 is incorrect both in its native calculator and if you use Spotlight. 

Read more - Goodbye Lightning Connector? Apple Reveals iPhone Charging Changes

Interestingly, the same calculation on Google Calculator (Chrome OS and Android), Linux variants (CentOS and Ubuntu), Windows and Excel is correct. So is MacOS 10..12.6, which ties the fault to the upgrade. 

It is unknown how many more calculations could be wrong in iOS 11.2.6 or MacOS 10.13.3. Obviously, there are an infinite number to test! 

Aside from the obvious warning (be very careful doing important calculations with Apple software), the problem does reveal something interesting about Apple’s long-term plans for MacOS and iOS. The company is quietly merging them ever closer together. 

The benefits to this are clear, iOS and MacOS can benefit from broader functionality and closer integration. But it also poses an equally important question: will this compromise the famed stability of MacOS by tying it so closely to the (never-ending) problems of iOS?

Looks like the pressure on Apple’s already-critical iOS 11.3 release, has cranked up another notch… 

___

Follow Gordon on Twitter, Facebook and Google+

More On Forbes

Apple iOS 11.2.6 Hides A Significant Change

Apple iOS 11.2.6 Release Has A Nasty Surprise

Apple iOS 11.2.6 Release: Should You Upgrade?

Apple iOS 11.3 Release: It's The Big One

Apple 'Confirms' New iPhones Have A Great Secret Feature


\




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Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

David Tuma
When you punch the % key doesn’t it just divide by 100?


Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 14, 2018, at 18:04, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, at 2:52 PM, Jerome King wrote:
>>
>> I think the issue is BIGGER than % display. I recommend you NOT use
>> Calculator except to confirm what you knew already
>
> The % on iOS 11 calculator matches the results of % on hardware calculators over the decades. I never use the % key on any calculator because it's stupid compared to real math:
>
> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20080110-00/?p=23853/
>
> --
> gastropod
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

Jerome King-2
it should MULTIPLY by 100.  thus 0.05 is 5 %

> On Mar 14, 2018, at 6:13 PM, David Tuma <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> When you punch the % key doesn’t it just divide by 100?
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Mar 14, 2018, at 18:04, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, at 2:52 PM, Jerome King wrote:
>>>
>>> I think the issue is BIGGER than % display. I recommend you NOT use
>>> Calculator except to confirm what you knew already
>>
>> The % on iOS 11 calculator matches the results of % on hardware calculators over the decades. I never use the % key on any calculator because it's stupid compared to real math:
>>
>> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20080110-00/?p=23853/
>>
>> --
>> gastropod
>>
>>
>> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
>> Post only when you have something substantive to contribute.
>> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
>> Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
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>> Unsubscribe at: http://tidbits.com/mailman/options/tidbits-talk
>> ____Mailing List Manners: http://tidbits.com/series/1141 ____
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
> Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
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Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

Johann Beda
In reply to this post by Jerome King-2
I have hated how the % button works on calculators since the late 1970s when I was "still in short-pants" as they said even longer ago.

Here is a page from back in 2008 explaining how a "regular" calculator usually uses the % key. This seems to be consistent with how the macOS calculator. If you type the keys

72 + 5% =

you get 75.6, which for most people is the expected answer, because 5% of 72 is 3.6. Add that to 72 and you get 75.6

From a notational point of view, one could argue that 5% is 0.05 so 72 + 5% should be 72.05, but for the past fifty years or so, that isn't how calculators have operated, and the people who regularly use calculators to calculate with percentages have come out on top.



> On Mar 14, 2018, at 5:52 PM, Jerome King <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Yesterday I passed on an alert that the Calculator application was not accurate and don’t depend upon it
> One member forwarded the message to a family member who under took to tell her that Siri didn’t have an issue
>
> But I was reporting on the Calculator application (both in iOS and macOS). below if my response.
> Tidbits subscribers won’t see the images but I think I’ve described them enough
>
> I think the issue is BIGGER than % display. I recommend you NOT use Calculator except to confirm what you knew already
>
> Jerry
>>
> My response to her reply
>
>
>> I have been bothered by this for many months  It is not a recent issue but I use the Calculator application on my Mac, not Siri.  I have problems talking to females? (or is it listening to?)
>>
>> I had assumed that I didn’t know how to use the Calculator appellation
>>
>> I keyed in 5 followed by the / key and then hit  100 = I got .05 which in the old world is 5%
>>
>> Even my old mind says that is accurate. And it used to be 5%
>>
>> I then went to calculator and hit the % button The display is 0.00005
>> I expected the result to be 5 meaning that I converted to %.  But I got
>>
>> So, INSTEAD, of multiplying by 100 the application divided by 100. AND it didn’t indicate % as the display format
>>
>> So the macOS application is screwed up and it has been that way for many, many months
>>
>> The % symbol is NOT an operator.  Unfortunately it is also an conversion that is wrong
>>
>> I’ve not tried ºF to ºC but probably worth testing
>>
>>
>> TO REPEAT,  I have been having this in macOS for a very long time.  It is NOT unique to iOS
>>
>> Apple needs to buy a HP calculator and use that to test their software.
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>>
>>> From my financial type brother.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs
>>>>
>>>> Tried this.   Siri interprets 100/20% as (100/20)% and shows the parentheses on screen.    Based on solving within parentheses first, the calculation result of .05 is correct.  More of a language issue than calculation.  That said, it’s good to know of possible misinterpretation. I asked Siri to solve 100 divided by .2 and she returns 500.  
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> IF your Apple products are at the most current update, the Calculator app (Apple’s built in application) may not be accurate.
>>>>>
>>>>> For sure, problem relates to percentages, fractions but impossible to know how much else is wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>> \Don’t trust the calculator on your Mac or iDevice
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.forbes.com/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple iOS 11.2.6 Has A Third Significant Problem
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple AAPL -0.96%AAPL -0.96%
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple
>>>>>>
>>>>>> AAPL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $179.98$-1.75(-0.96%)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As of 03/13/2018, 09:07pm EDT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ’s iOS 11.2.6 problems continue. On the surface, this is a seemingly minor update but it has caused a spate of issues and the strangest and potentially most serious one has now been topped…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A deep dive from PiunikaWeb has found iOS 11.2..6 has problems with math. As such you shouldn’t trust your iPhone, iPad or iPod touch to do important calculations. The problem also extends to Macs running the latest release MacOS 10.13.3.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple iOS 11.2.6
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Credit for spotting the issue first goes to former Apple employee Ryan Jones, who tweeted that calculations involving percentages are broken. He gives the example of asking: 100/20%. The answer should be 500, but instead Apple will tell you it’s 0.05.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But PiunikaWeb’s Aparajita Sharma found the situation gets more complicated. In iOS 11.2.6 asking the calculation from Siri gives the incorrect 0.05 answer, but doing it manually on the iOS calculator will give you 500. MacOS 10.13.3 is incorrect both in its native calculator and if you use Spotlight.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read more - Goodbye Lightning Connector? Apple Reveals iPhone Charging Changes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interestingly, the same calculation on Google Calculator (Chrome OS and Android), Linux variants (CentOS and Ubuntu), Windows and Excel is correct. So is MacOS 10..12.6, which ties the fault to the upgrade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is unknown how many more calculations could be wrong in iOS 11.2.6 or MacOS 10.13.3. Obviously, there are an infinite number to test!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Aside from the obvious warning (be very careful doing important calculations with Apple software), the problem does reveal something interesting about Apple’s long-term plans for MacOS and iOS. The company is quietly merging them ever closer together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The benefits to this are clear, iOS and MacOS can benefit from broader functionality and closer integration. But it also poses an equally important question: will this compromise the famed stability of MacOS by tying it so closely to the (never-ending) problems of iOS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like the pressure on Apple’s already-critical iOS 11.3 release, has cranked up another notch…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Follow Gordon on Twitter, Facebook and Google+
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More On Forbes
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple iOS 11.2.6 Hides A Significant Change
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple iOS 11.2.6 Release Has A Nasty Surprise
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple iOS 11.2.6 Release: Should You Upgrade?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple iOS 11.3 Release: It's The Big One
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apple 'Confirms' New iPhones Have A Great Secret Feature
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> \
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
> Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
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Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Jerome King-2
On 14 Mar 2018, at 15:52, Jerome King <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> I then went to calculator and hit the % button The display is 0.00005

That is right.

>> So, INSTEAD, of multiplying by 100 the application divided by 100. AND it didn’t indicate % as the display format

This is how every calculator I’ve ever used works, going back to my HP 11c.

On 14 Mar 2018, at 16:37, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:
> 72 − 20% + 5% = 60.48

The result both pCalc and Apple calculator give. As well as the old paper register calculator we still have for some reason.

--
CURSIVE WRITING DOES NOT MEAN WHAT I THINK IT DOES Bart chalkboard Ep.
2F11



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Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

Marc Zeedar-2
In reply to this post by Johann Beda

On Mar 14, 2018, at 3:41 PM, Johann Beda <[hidden email]> wrote:

I have hated how the % button works on calculators since the late 1970s

Ditto!

I use an iPhone app called OffOf that is awesome for calculating how much discounts are:

http://offof.drewwilson.com/

There are separate fields for the amount and the percent and it will show you both the amount off and the new total.

Marc Zeedar
Publisher
xDev Magazine



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Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

dianed143@comcast.net
In reply to this post by Jerome King-2

> On Mar 14, 2018, at 6:41 PM, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Jerome King wrote:
>> it should MULTIPLY by 100.  thus 0.05 is 5 %
>
> No it shouldn't.  5% = 0.05.  Type in 5, hit % and you get 0.05.
> —

I’ve been using calculators since I was a little kid and % works as I expect it to  5%  =  0.05


Diane


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Re: Calculator problem on iPhones, iPads & Macs

Jerry King
Obviously my error.  I thought pressing % converted a number to its % display form.   Apparently % is to convert a number in % to its decimal form.

Learn something new each day even at over 4 score.


Jerry


> On Mar 14, 2018, at 9:00 PM, Diane <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On Mar 14, 2018, at 6:41 PM, gastropod <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Jerome King wrote:
>>> it should MULTIPLY by 100.  thus 0.05 is 5 %
>>
>> No it shouldn't.  5% = 0.05.  Type in 5, hit % and you get 0.05.
>> —
>
> I’ve been using calculators since I was a little kid and % works as I expect it to  5%  =  0.05
>
>
> Diane
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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