Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

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Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Neil Laubenthal
OK…this one’s gotten me stumped and I (a) have no idea what’s wrong and (b) am looking for recommendations on fixing it.

The machine is a mid 2015 rMBP running up to date High Sierra with APFS…it was upgraded from Sierra and then 10.12 and 10.11 before that. Filevault2 is enabled.

I found the problem when I deleted a 40GB Parallels Desktop disk image using Daisydisk and discovered that Finder didn’t agree that free space went up by 40GB…this persists despite all troubleshooting I’ve done.

The MBP shows 388GB used and the two Carbon Copy Cloner full disk clones I did today show only 262GB so there’s 120 missing somehow. I thought it might be purgeable space from the APFS snapshots…but on looking deeper with the standalone version of Daisydisk which will scan as administrator there are only 3GB of purgeable space with another 119 showing as “still hidden”.

Disk Utility when booted from the SSD in the MBP says everything is fine. I booted from the Recovery Disk on the SSD…which turns out to only have 10.11 on it and hence it doesn’t know anything about APSF but Disk Utility from there shows everything as fine and the fsck_apfs command from terminal on the recovery disk (as recommended by the Daisydisk folks) says no such command…which is as expected since 10.11 doesn’t know about APFS.

All of the updates have been via the make a bootable USB drive and update from there…instead of the put the installer on the SSD and run it…variety if that makes any difference.

First question…any idea what’s wrong?

Second question…how to fix both the lack of a proper Recovery volume and reclaim the space? My best guess so far is to clone the drive again, boot from my USB stick High Sierra installer, erase the SSD and then reinstall High Sierra, then run the latest 10.13.4 Combo Updater and finally boot from the clone and use Carbon Copy Cloner clone to restore the clone back to the SSD. However…any easier ideas certainly would be helpful.

If I knew how to get a proper Recovery Disk on High Sierra I could boot from there and run fsck_apfs…although I booted from my High Sierra bootable USB installer and ran that successfully with no errors found. As far as I can figure…somethings either taking up a lot of (like 25%) of my drive space or the directory is hosed somehow.

TIA.

-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Al Varnell
The only reliable way is to run the latest full installer on your boot drive. It won't require erasing the drive, nor touch any user data or third party software installations. Just gives you a fresh OS along with the Recovery partition.

Download the latest full installer from the Mac App Store.

Sent from my iPad

-Al-

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 3:26 PM, Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> If I knew how to get a proper Recovery Disk on High Sierra I could boot from there and run fsck_apfs



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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Neil Laubenthal
On 2018-04-06 (16:26 MDT), Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> OK…this one’s gotten me stumped and I (a) have no idea what’s wrong and (b) am looking for recommendations on fixing it.
>
> The machine is a mid 2015 rMBP running up to date High Sierra with APFS…it was upgraded from Sierra and then 10.12 and 10.11 before that. Filevault2 is enabled.
>
> I found the problem when I deleted a 40GB Parallels Desktop disk image using Daisydisk and discovered that Finder didn’t agree that free space went up by 40GB…this persists despite all troubleshooting I’ve done.

MacOS shows free space oddly in high Sierra. It often has very little to do with how much physical space is free.

> The MBP shows 388GB used and the two Carbon Copy Cloner full disk clones I did today show only 262GB so there’s 120 missing somehow. I thought it might be purgeable space from the APFS snapshots…but on looking deeper with the standalone version of Daisydisk which will scan as administrator there are only 3GB of purgeable space with another 119 showing as “still hidden”.

Yeah, that sounds about apr for the course.

> Disk Utility when booted from the SSD in the MBP says everything is fine. I booted from the Recovery Disk on the SSD…which turns out to only have 10.11 on it and hence it doesn’t know anything about APSF but Disk Utility from there shows everything as fine

I don't think you should touch your APFS disk with a Disk Utility from 10.11.

> First question…any idea what’s wrong?

Apple calculates space oddly and you will see different numbers in the finder, in df, and in a disk utility. Not all of this is documented yet, so utilities like Daisy Disk are guessing based on what they've been able to figure out so far.

> Second question…how to fix both the lack of a proper Recovery volume and reclaim the space? My best guess so far is to clone the drive again, boot from my USB stick High Sierra installer, erase the SSD and then reinstall High Sierra, then run the latest 10.13.4 Combo Updater and finally boot from the clone and use Carbon Copy Cloner clone to restore the clone back to the SSD. However…any easier ideas certainly would be helpful.

Sure, you can do that. You will quickly find yourself back in the same basic situation.

My 234GB SSD shows 189GB used in df, 93GB free in the finder, and 48GB purgeable in get info, so those numbers sort of add up (189+93−48=234).
 
> If I knew how to get a proper Recovery Disk on High Sierra

Run the High Serra Installer. This will not overwrite any data, but have a backup anyway.

> I could boot from there and run fsck_apfs…although I booted from my High Sierra bootable USB installer and ran that successfully with no errors found. As far as I can figure…somethings either taking up a lot of (like 25%) of my drive space or the directory is hosed somehow.

Nope. Welcome to APFS.

--
If you could do a sort of relief map of sinfulness, wickedness and
all-round immorality, rather like those representations of the
gravitational field around a Black Hole, then even in Ankh-Morpork the
Shades would be represented by a shaft. In fact the Shades was
remarkably like the aforesaid well-known astrological phenomenon: it had
a certain strong attraction, no light escaped from it, and it could
indeed become a gateway to another world. The next one.




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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Doug Hogg
I ran into an oddity where deleting pictures from photos did not free up space. As I recall, Time Machine had done a local back up on the internal drive of a 15” MacBook Pro. We had to use a Terminal command to deactivate Time Machine’s local backup to get the hard drive space to appear. Apparently the space would have been released as needed, but my friend was going on holiday and wanted to be sure that had space to store his vacation shots.

:-)

Doug Hogg

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 4:44 PM, @lbutlr <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-04-06 (16:26 MDT), Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> OK…this one’s gotten me stumped and I (a) have no idea what’s wrong and (b) am looking for recommendations on fixing it.
>>
>> The machine is a mid 2015 rMBP running up to date High Sierra with APFS…it was upgraded from Sierra and then 10.12 and 10.11 before that. Filevault2 is enabled.
>>
>> I found the problem when I deleted a 40GB Parallels Desktop disk image using Daisydisk and discovered that Finder didn’t agree that free space went up by 40GB…this persists despite all troubleshooting I’ve done.
>
> MacOS shows free space oddly in high Sierra. It often has very little to do with how much physical space is free.
>
>> The MBP shows 388GB used and the two Carbon Copy Cloner full disk clones I did today show only 262GB so there’s 120 missing somehow. I thought it might be purgeable space from the APFS snapshots…but on looking deeper with the standalone version of Daisydisk which will scan as administrator there are only 3GB of purgeable space with another 119 showing as “still hidden”.
>
> Yeah, that sounds about apr for the course.
>
>> Disk Utility when booted from the SSD in the MBP says everything is fine. I booted from the Recovery Disk on the SSD…which turns out to only have 10.11 on it and hence it doesn’t know anything about APSF but Disk Utility from there shows everything as fine
>
> I don't think you should touch your APFS disk with a Disk Utility from 10.11.
>
>> First question…any idea what’s wrong?
>
> Apple calculates space oddly and you will see different numbers in the finder, in df, and in a disk utility. Not all of this is documented yet, so utilities like Daisy Disk are guessing based on what they've been able to figure out so far.
>
>> Second question…how to fix both the lack of a proper Recovery volume and reclaim the space? My best guess so far is to clone the drive again, boot from my USB stick High Sierra installer, erase the SSD and then reinstall High Sierra, then run the latest 10.13.4 Combo Updater and finally boot from the clone and use Carbon Copy Cloner clone to restore the clone back to the SSD. However…any easier ideas certainly would be helpful.
>
> Sure, you can do that. You will quickly find yourself back in the same basic situation.
>
> My 234GB SSD shows 189GB used in df, 93GB free in the finder, and 48GB purgeable in get info, so those numbers sort of add up (189+93−48=234).
>
>> If I knew how to get a proper Recovery Disk on High Sierra
>
> Run the High Serra Installer. This will not overwrite any data, but have a backup anyway.
>
>> I could boot from there and run fsck_apfs…although I booted from my High Sierra bootable USB installer and ran that successfully with no errors found. As far as I can figure…somethings either taking up a lot of (like 25%) of my drive space or the directory is hosed somehow.
>
> Nope. Welcome to APFS.
>
> --
> If you could do a sort of relief map of sinfulness, wickedness and
> all-round immorality, rather like those representations of the
> gravitational field around a Black Hole, then even in Ankh-Morpork the
> Shades would be represented by a shaft. In fact the Shades was
> remarkably like the aforesaid well-known astrological phenomenon: it had
> a certain strong attraction, no light escaped from it, and it could
> indeed become a gateway to another world. The next one.
>
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Neil Laubenthal
Thanks all…I’ll grab another copy of the latest High Sierra installer and run it while booted from the internal drive…although since I already ran the installer one would think it would have updated the Recovery Disk but perhaps running it from a bootable USB drive installer makes it skip updating the Recovery Disk. Hopefully that will fix the Recovery Disk…I’ll report back on my success on that front.

Strange that Finder and df as well as Storage tab in About this Mac all show the 388 used but the clone shows 260…but the clone is to an external thats not an APFS formatted drive.


I hadn’t thought about just rerunning the latest installer…


-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Roger D. Parish
Not everything is copied in a cloning operation. I looked at the log from a SuperDuper clone of my fusion boot drive, and there were many files listed as “not copied”.

Roger D. Parish
Lovettsville, VA


> On Apr 7, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> …
> Strange that Finder and df as well as Storage tab in About this Mac all show the 388 used but the clone shows 260…but the clone is to an external thats not an APFS formatted drive.




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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Neil Laubenthal
Could that be because some of the files didn’t need copying? CCC does an incremental duplication by default.

On Apr 7, 2018, at 9:36 AM, Roger D. Parish <[hidden email]> wrote:

log from a SuperDuper clone of my fusion boot drive, and there were many files listed as “not copied”.


-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Neil Laubenthal
In reply to this post by Neil Laubenthal
Well…running the 10.13.4 installer while booted from the SSD solved the drive space problem…the SSD now reports 262GB used which is about the same as the cloned drive and the sum total of all the visible directories on the drive…I know that things like /etc, /var and /opt are hidden but those are typically pretty small relatively speaking.

However…the recovery drive is still 10.11…so obviously running the installer to fix that isn’t the correct solution…guess I’ll keep looking around for how to fix that…but in the interim I can always boot form the High Sierra installer USB and run Disk Utility from there.


On Apr 7, 2018, at 8:32 AM, Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:

I hadn’t thought about just rerunning the latest installer…


-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Fritz Mills
In reply to this post by Neil Laubenthal

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 5:26 PM, Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Second question…how to fix both the lack of a proper Recovery volume and reclaim the space? My best guess so far is to clone the drive again, boot from my USB stick High Sierra installer, erase the SSD and then reinstall High Sierra, then run the latest 10.13.4 Combo Updater and finally boot from the clone and use Carbon Copy Cloner clone to restore the clone back to the SSD. However…any easier ideas certainly would be helpful.
>

I believe Carbon Copy Cloner will update your Recovery volume, but you need to be booted from an external disk for it to do it.






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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Neil Laubenthal
I’ll have to nuke an external drive and reinstall a fresh OS on it…but that’s my next step to try.


On Apr 7, 2018, at 1:09 PM, Fritz Mills <[hidden email]> wrote:

I believe Carbon Copy Cloner will update your Recovery volume, but you need to be booted from an external disk for it to do it.


-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Curtis Wilcox
In reply to this post by Neil Laubenthal
On Apr 7, 2018, at 12:55 PM, Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Well…running the 10.13.4 installer while booted from the SSD solved the drive space problem…the SSD now reports 262GB used which is about the same as the cloned drive and the sum total of all the visible directories on the drive…I know that things like /etc, /var and /opt are hidden but those are typically pretty small relatively speaking.


/var/ is not that small, mine is 8.6GB. That's where RAM swap files and the hibernation sleepimage are kept (/var/vm/ is 3GB at the moment), /var/db/ can be sizable as can /var/folders/. But at least some of what's in /var/ can be treated as ephemeral and not necessarily copied even when cloning. /var/log/ could be big, depending on what you run and if you've been in the habit of not doing clean OS upgrades and cloning from old computers to new.

BTW, /opt/ isn't a part of macOS, it's added by some 3rd party software (on mine, it's part of Cisco Anyconnect VPN client).




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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Neil Laubenthal
True...but I was looking for 120GB. Funny that the reinstall fixed the original space issue but not the recovery partition. I’m doing a brand new install on an external drive now...if that results in a HS recovery partition CCC can clone it to the internal.

neil

The three kinds of stress…nuclear, cooking and a&&hole. Jello is the key to the relationship.

> On Apr 7, 2018, at 13:58, Curtis Wilcox <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> /var/ is not that small, mine is 8.6GB. T




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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by Neil Laubenthal
Hang on a minute. The USB drive installer should have given you the Recovery partition, especially if it was a bootable USB drive.

Are you sure you don't have it? The only way to tell now is by holding down <Command>-R at reboot. You won't be able to see it in Disk Utility or by invoking Startup Manager at boot time by holding the <Option>-key down any more. That's been true for awhile now.

The latest KB support document is "How to reinstall macOS" <https://support.apple.com/HT204904>.

-Al-

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:32 AM, Neil Laubenthal wrote:
Thanks all…I’ll grab another copy of the latest High Sierra installer and run it while booted from the internal drive…although since I already ran the installer one would think it would have updated the Recovery Disk but perhaps running it from a bootable USB drive installer makes it skip updating the Recovery Disk. Hopefully that will fix the Recovery Disk…I’ll report back on my success on that front.



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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

James R Cutler
In High Sierra and maybe before, the Terminal.app command “diskutil list” shows all real and virtual devices, partitions, and volumes.

James R. Cutler
PGP keys at http://pgp.mit.edu



On Apr 7, 2018, at 7:55 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hang on a minute. The USB drive installer should have given you the Recovery partition, especially if it was a bootable USB drive.

Are you sure you don't have it? The only way to tell now is by holding down <Command>-R at reboot. You won't be able to see it in Disk Utility or by invoking Startup Manager at boot time by holding the <Option>-key down any more. That's been true for awhile now.

The latest KB support document is "How to reinstall macOS" <https://support.apple.com/HT204904>.

-Al-

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 05:32 AM, Neil Laubenthal wrote:
Thanks all…I’ll grab another copy of the latest High Sierra installer and run it while booted from the internal drive…although since I already ran the installer one would think it would have updated the Recovery Disk but perhaps running it from a bootable USB drive installer makes it skip updating the Recovery Disk. Hopefully that will fix the Recovery Disk…I’ll report back on my success on that front.


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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

@lbutlr
On 2018-04-07 (18:12 MDT), James R Cutler <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In High Sierra and maybe before, the Terminal.app command “diskutil list” shows all real and virtual devices, partitions, and volumes.


Yes, but you have to know what you're looking at as it is not at all obvious:

 diskutil list
/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *251.0 GB   disk0
   1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk0s1
   2:                 Apple_APFS Container disk1         250.8 GB   disk0s2

/dev/disk1 (synthesized):
   #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
   0:      APFS Container Scheme -                      +250.8 GB   disk1
                                 Physical Store disk0s2
   1:                APFS Volume Amelia_Pond             206.0 GB   disk1s1
   2:                APFS Volume Preboot                 18.9 MB    disk1s2
   3:                APFS Volume Recovery                519.8 MB   disk1s3
   4:                APFS Volume VM                      2.1 GB     disk1s4

disk1 is composed from disk0s2, which is non obvious.

--
Like the moment when the brakes lock/And you slide towards the big
truck/You stretch the frozen moments with your fear




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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

James R Cutler
You are absolute right about confusion. As part of our hybrid UNIX/NEXT/Mac OS heritage, storage devices are sliced up, slices (partitions) become volumes that we see as disks in the finder. And storage devices nowadays often have no disks inside them, but rather contain memory chips of one kind or another.

Creating a new ssdutil or such would add to the confusion both for users and software creators without adding any value because, for most purposes, they are programmatically identical. As storage has evolved, new devfs types are added to the existing diskutil and related utilities. This keeps programmers happy, makes hardware storage device swapping simple, and, as has been noted, is mostly hidden from users. 

In the diskutil outputfrom @lbutlr:
  • /dev/disk0        is the real physical device which appears to be an internal physical device, probably an SSD (because it uses APFS)
  • /dev/disk0/s0 is the entire device formatted with GUID partition scheme
  • /dev/disk0/s1 is partition (slice) 1 and contains boot-related code
  • /dev/disk0/s2 is partition (slice) 2 and is the container for APFS virtual disk /dev/disk1 
  • /dev/disk1        is the APFS virtual device created in /dev/disk0/s2
  • /dev/disk1/s0 is the entire device contents formatted with APFS Container scheme
  • /dev/disk1/s1 is partition (slice) 1 and is the APFS Volume named Amelia_Pond that you see in the finder.
  • /dev/disk1/s2 is partition (slice) 2 and contains boot-related code
  • /dev/disk1/s3 is partition (slice) 3 and is the Recovery volume
  • /dev/disk1/s4 is partition (slice) 4 and is dedicated to Virtual Memory 
As with any tool, you have to learn which end of the knife to hold, else damage happens.



James R. Cutler
PGP keys at http://pgp.mit.edu



On Apr 7, 2018, at 8:16 PM, @lbutlr <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 2018-04-07 (18:12 MDT), James R Cutler <[hidden email]> wrote:

In High Sierra and maybe before, the Terminal.app command “diskutil list” shows all real and virtual devices, partitions, and volumes.


Yes, but you have to know what you're looking at as it is not at all obvious:

diskutil list
/dev/disk0 (internal, physical):
  #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
  0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *251.0 GB   disk0
  1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk0s1
  2:                 Apple_APFS Container disk1         250.8 GB   disk0s2

/dev/disk1 (synthesized):
  #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER
  0:      APFS Container Scheme -                      +250.8 GB   disk1
                                Physical Store disk0s2
  1:                APFS Volume Amelia_Pond             206.0 GB   disk1s1
  2:                APFS Volume Preboot                 18.9 MB    disk1s2
  3:                APFS Volume Recovery                519.8 MB   disk1s3
  4:                APFS Volume VM                      2.1 GB     disk1s4

disk1 is composed from disk0s2, which is non obvious.

--
Like the moment when the brakes lock/And you slide towards the big
truck/You stretch the frozen moments with your fear




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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Al Varnell
In reply to this post by Neil Laubenthal
Sorry, I must have missed the fact that you had a 10.11 Recovery drive. The full installer should have fixed that and always has when I needed it.

CCC uses some trickery in order to be able to backup the Recovery, so I'm interested to know if this works for you.

The other solution that has worked for me in the past was to us Chris Silvertooth's "Recovery Partition Creator" script. The last version he posted was v4.0.4 from Oct 2016: 
<http://musings.silvertooth.us/2016/10/recovery-partition-4-0-4/> which I have, but for some reason I'm unable to download it from his site with any of the browser's I've tried. It's either missing or blocked by Google SafeBrowsing at this time. Overriding the block redirects me to a turkish site that pretends to be a Windows Tech Support scare. I don't believe I ever used the current version with High Sierra, but gave it a quick check just now without taking the final step and it seems to be working OK. It needs to be able to see the full installer to work it's magic. Let me know if you need to try it.

-Al-

On Sat, Apr 07, 2018 at 09:55 AM, Neil Laubenthal wrote:
the recovery drive is still 10.11…so obviously running the installer to fix that isn’t the correct solution…guess I’ll keep looking around for how to fix that




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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Neil Laubenthal
I was surprised that running the full installer didn’t fix the 10.11 recovery disk as well…I’ve got an email into both Mike Bombich and the Daisydisk folks to see if they have a solution…the latter seemed to think it would need a complete reinstall on the SSD…that’s hard so I guess if I have to I will just keep a bootable 10.13 installer USB driver around as my pseudo recovery drive.

I grabbed the 4.04 version of Recovery Partition creator…but the notes on the page say that it doesn’t work with 10.13. I found another script yesterday that says it works with 10.12 but haven’t tried that either yet.

My guess is that it’s not something that will end up being fixable unless I blow the drive away and start over…although with an up to date CCC clone to clone back after the base OS install it won’t be as hard as it could be. I did do a separate format and install on an external FW drive yesterday including reformatting the drive as APFS but the installer did not create a recovery drive on the external.

On Apr 7, 2018, at 8:53 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sorry, I must have missed the fact that you had a 10.11 Recovery drive. The full installer should have fixed that and always has when I needed it.

CCC uses some trickery in order to be able to backup the Recovery, so I'm interested to know if this works for you.

...Chris Silvertooth's "Recovery Partition Creator" script. 

-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Neil Laubenthal
In reply to this post by Al Varnell
Yup…I’m sure. Option at startup shows me Brilliant4 and 10.11 Recovery…booting into the latter and running sw_vers from terminal confirms it’s 10.11. Off the top of my head…I can’t remember if this machine came with 10.11 or if I installed it later…but every update since then has been from creating the bootable USB installer built with the createinstallmedia terminal command.

On Apr 7, 2018, at 7:55 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

Are you sure you don't have it? 
-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil






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Re: Lost Drive Space and Other Oddities

Al Varnell
As I said earlier, <Option>-key at start will not show you a macOS 10.13 Recovery drive as it is installed within a Core Storage container.

Try running the following Terminal Command and see if you can find it there:

diskutil cs list

-Al-

On Sun, Apr 08, 2018 at 06:56 AM, Neil Laubenthal wrote:
Yup…I’m sure. Option at startup shows me Brilliant4 and 10.11 Recovery…booting into the latter and running sw_vers from terminal confirms it’s 10.11. Off the top of my head…I can’t remember if this machine came with 10.11 or if I installed it later…but every update since then has been from creating the bootable USB installer built with the createinstallmedia terminal command.

On Apr 7, 2018, at 7:55 PM, Al Varnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

Are you sure you don't have it? 
-----------------------------------------------
There are only three kinds of stress; your basic nuclear stress, cooking stress, and A$$hole stress. The key to their relationship is Jello.

neil



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