New MacPro storage

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New MacPro storage

Dr Digby L. James
Just looking to configure a new MacPro.

Should I order with a 1TB drive, or go for the base drive and upgrade with third party storage (such as from OWC).

I plan to increase the memory from Crucial.

Dr Digby L. James
Quinta Press
Meadow View
Weston Rhyn
Oswestry
Shropshire
SY10 7RN
www.quintapress.com
Phone:  (+44)(0)1691 778659
Mobile: (+44)(0)7970 678144






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Re: New MacPro storage

Rodney
On Dec 20, 2013, at 11:22, Dr Digby L. James <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Should I order with a 1TB drive, or go for the base drive and upgrade with third party storage (such as from OWC).

That's a nice problem to have...:-)

I have read that you can upgrade the memory, but I'm not sure about a DIY upgrade for the internal SSD.

When I was shopping for an SSD for my current Mac Pro I read that the current (last spring) SSD technology used parallelism to increase speed, and that the speed of the drives increased until a bit over 400GB.  Drives bigger than that weren't any faster than the smaller drives.  I have no idea what kind of SSD Apple is using, except that it talks PCIe.

Assuming you could ever upgrade the internal SSD, you couldn't use the old one because there is only room in the can for one.  I would personally get the 512GB SSD, because it would comfortably hold everything I currently keep on my primary drive.  I'd plan on using external USB3 or Thunderbolt drives for bulk storage instead of paying extra for the 1TB internal drive.

The last I heard, the ship date for the Mac Pro had slipped to February.  I'm relieved, because it removes the temptation for me to buy one this year.  However, if the dollar is in the toilet in December, 2014...




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Re: New MacPro storage

John Burt-2
In reply to this post by Dr Digby L. James
If you are storing a lot of movies or video, they are large.

Sent from the SciFiOne.com iPad

On Dec 20, 2013, at 2:22 AM, "Dr Digby L. James" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just looking to configure a new MacPro.
>
> Should I order with a 1TB drive



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Re: New MacPro storage

Dr Digby L. James
In reply to this post by Rodney
Aged parents who can't spend their money are paying as a combined birthday/Christmas present.

On 20 Dec 2013, at 12:04, Rodney wrote:

> That's a nice problem to have...:-)

Dr Digby L. James
Quinta Press
Meadow View
Weston Rhyn
Oswestry
Shropshire
SY10 7RN
www.quintapress.com
Phone:  (+44)(0)1691 778659
Mobile: (+44)(0)7970 678144






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Re: New MacPro storage

Dr Digby L. James
In reply to this post by John Burt-2
I've currently got two 3TB drives (cloned) in this MacPro 1.1. with 973GB to spare. I mainly have humungous amounts of images of ancient books which I work on, plus forever scanning more. I have a load more on a NAS, which is creaking, so I'm always thinking I don't have enough space. I'm thinking that whatever SSD I get internally in the new MacPro I'll get a G-Tech 4TB external for storing files on, and just keep the SSD for system and applications. So I really need to cull my applications folder and see what size that and the system will be.

On 20 Dec 2013, at 17:53, John Burt wrote:

> If you are storing a lot of movies or video, they are large.
>
> Sent from the SciFiOne.com iPad
>
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 2:22 AM, "Dr Digby L. James" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Just looking to configure a new MacPro.
>>
>> Should I order with a 1TB drive

Dr Digby L. James
Quinta Press
Meadow View
Weston Rhyn
Oswestry
Shropshire
SY10 7RN
www.quintapress.com
Phone:  (+44)(0)1691 778659
Mobile: (+44)(0)7970 678144






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Re: New MacPro storage

Curtis Wilcox
In reply to this post by Rodney
On Dec 20, 2013, at 7:04 AM, Rodney <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have no idea what kind of SSD Apple is using, except that it talks PCIe.

I think they'll look a lot like these flash upgrades for the MacBook Pro Retinas but probably aren't the same. I wouldn't assume Mac Pro flash storage upgrades will be practical to do yourself.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Air-Retina/Apple-MacBook-Pro-Retina-2012-Drive-Internal-Flash

Macworld has a new Mac Pro with 512GB and in quick tests were getting 950MB/s writes and 920MB/s reads! There's clearly something different about them, that's well above what I've seen for any other Mac even ones with PCIe flash storage larger than 512GB.

http://www.macworld.com/article/2082022/the-new-mac-pro-first-impressions.html




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Re: New MacPro storage

Curtis Wilcox
In reply to this post by Dr Digby L. James
On Dec 20, 2013, at 1:31 PM, "Dr Digby L. James" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I've currently got two 3TB drives (cloned) in this MacPro 1.1. with 973GB to spare. I mainly have humungous amounts of images of ancient books which I work on, plus forever scanning more. I have a load more on a NAS, which is creaking, so I'm always thinking I don't have enough space. I'm thinking that whatever SSD I get internally in the new MacPro I'll get a G-Tech 4TB external for storing files on, and just keep the SSD for system and applications. So I really need to cull my applications folder and see what size that and the system will be.

I think the Mac Pro's internal storage should be big enough for one's OS, applications, and anything that's best left inside user profiles (with room for growth over the machines's life span). Everything else goes in external storage connected by USB3 or Thunderbolt. If you're pretty sure you'll never exceed the size of one of the Mac Pro's storage options, I suppose you could buy the upgrade and not use external storage. However I think there are very, very few people for whom it makes sense to buy a Mac Pro but don't need more than 1TB storage.

External storage with a desktop isn't the inconvenience it is with a laptop. Externally your storage can be cheaper, larger, and often both. Upgrading the new Mac Pro's 256GB storage to 1TB is $800. G-tech's USB3 enclosure with 4TB is about $320 (and they're not the cheapest). Sure, it's a lot slower than the Mac Pro's storage but how fast does it need to be to get the job done? If you need it to be faster than what a single magnetic drive can handle but still bigger than what's affordable with flash storage, you'll have to go up to a 4 or 5 drive box and spend more than $1000 but the storage can be a lot bigger.

Depending on how you use them, you might drag a book's scans from the external drive to the Mac Pro's storage then open them rather than opening them directly from the external drive; I'm assuming the scans are pretty high res so I'd expect you could flip through pages noticeably faster if you copy them first to the flash storage.




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Re: New MacPro storage

Neil Laubenthal
In reply to this post by Dr Digby L. James
On Dec 20, 2013, at 1:31 PM, Dr Digby L. James <[hidden email]> wrote:
> applications folder and see what size that and the system will be


For /Library, /System, and /Applications I have about 6, 9, and 25 GB so even if you have some more apps I can’t see the combination going over 50 GB or so max.


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Re: New MacPro storage

Mr. Seth Anderson

On Dec 20, 2013, at 3:36 PM, Neil Laubenthal <[hidden email]> wrote:

> For /Library, /System, and /Applications I have about 6, 9, and 25 GB so even if you have some more apps I can’t see the combination going over 50 GB or so max.

I dunno, depends upon your habits and predilections, I guess. I sorted my Apps folder by size, and the top 7 apps (3 are games) consist of 76 GB (the entire App folder is 128 GB, but I could remove a lot of it if I had to).

Back to the new fancy-schmancy MacPro, I am considering upgrading, but I really really really prefer internal drives for files that are important to me. My current MacPro has 4 internal bays so it is trivial to have 2 backups of my work at at all times (well, with a lag for SuperDuper! to do its magic). From my understanding of the new MacPro, there is only one internal drive, every other drive will be external, meaning I’d have to purchase additional expensive hardware to keep my current setup.


-Seth Anderson
sursum vestri culus

often found at
http://www.b12partners.net/wp/

 


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Re: New MacPro storage

Nello Lucchesi
On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Mr. Seth Anderson <[hidden email]>wrote:

> From my understanding of the new MacPro, there is only one internal drive,
> every other drive will be external, meaning I’d have to purchase additional
> expensive hardware to keep my current setup.
>

If you have an unused Intel computer, consider building your own NAS using
FreeNAS and your current drives:

http://www.freenas.org/

- nello


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Re: New MacPro storage

Marc Zeedar-2
In reply to this post by Dr Digby L. James

On Dec 20, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Dr Digby L. James <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So I really need to cull my applications folder and see what size that and the system will be.

If you're looking for a good way to do this, I recommend the program DaisyDisk (available on the Mac App Store). It's very handy for showing you what is taking up your disk space. I've used it many times to help fit my OS onto smaller SSDs. (No affiliation, just a user.)


Marc Zeedar
Publisher, xDev Magazine
www.xdevmag.com




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Re: New MacPro storage

Alexander Forbes
In reply to this post by Nello Lucchesi
On Dec 20, 2013, at 2:56 PM, Nello Lucchesi <[hidden email]> wrote:

On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Mr. Seth Anderson <[hidden email]>wrote:

> From my understanding of the new MacPro, there is only one internal drive,
> every other drive will be external, meaning I’d have to purchase additional
> expensive hardware to keep my current setup.
>

If you have an unused Intel computer, consider building your own NAS using
FreeNAS and your current drives:

http://www.freenas.org/

- nello

This looks very cool, runs on FreeBSD so you can dump Windows. Do you use it, can can you share personal experience with it?

- Alex



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Re: New MacPro storage

Nello Lucchesi
> On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Alexander Forbes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> [FreeNAS] looks very cool, runs on FreeBSD so you can dump Windows. Do you use it, can can you share personal experience with it?

Yes, I've used it for almost a year now on a computer I assembled myself from components recommended by my nephew.

I use it exclusively as storage for CrashPlan backups for seven computers, four on my LAN and the rest over internet connections to relatives. Performance has been flawless and trouble-free.  And yes, I've tested the restores as I've had two drive failures.

Let me know if you have other questions.

- nello


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Re: New MacPro storage

Curtis Wilcox
In reply to this post by Mr. Seth Anderson
On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:12 PM, "Mr. Seth Anderson" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From my understanding of the new MacPro, there is only one internal drive, every other drive will be external, meaning I’d have to purchase additional expensive hardware to keep my current setup.

Yes, now the only Mac with an option for more than one internal drive is the Mac Mini with OS X Server (technically an iMac in a Fusion drive config also has 2 drives, a 128GB SSD and a magnetic drive). If that was your reason to buy the "cheese grater" Mac Pro, you might as well skip the new Mac Pro and buy a cheaper Mac. You can buy an iMac plus a 4-drive box for less than a Mac Pro (an empty USB3 RAID box can be less than $200, Thunderbolt is more expensive).




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Re: New MacPro storage

Jack Rodgers
Check out the specs. It can ship with a 1 Terrabyte PCIe flash drive. The
Oatmeal Box MacPro is intended for those who demand the fastest possible
computer. Add some Thunderbolt drives and you'll probably cause a
neighborhood brown out when you do some work.

If, like me, you do Filemaker work, an iMac is perfect. But if I decide to
use a server, then I'd want the MacPro.


On Saturday, December 21, 2013, Curtis Wilcox wrote:

> On Dec 20, 2013, at 5:12 PM, "Mr. Seth Anderson" <[hidden email]<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> > From my understanding of the new MacPro, there is only one internal
> drive, every other drive will be external, meaning I’d have to purchase
> additional expensive hardware to keep my current setup.
>
> Yes, now the only Mac with an option for more than one internal drive is
> the Mac Mini with OS X Server (technically an iMac in a Fusion drive config
> also has 2 drives, a 128GB SSD and a magnetic drive). If that was your
> reason to buy the "cheese grater" Mac Pro, you might as well skip the new
> Mac Pro and buy a cheaper Mac. You can buy an iMac plus a 4-drive box for
> less than a Mac Pro (an empty USB3 RAID box can be less than $200,
> Thunderbolt is more expensive).
>
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Re: New MacPro storage

Curtis Wilcox
On Dec 21, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Jack Rodgers <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The Oatmeal Box MacPro is intended for those who demand the fastest possible computer.

The fastest possible *Mac*.

> If, like me, you do Filemaker work, an iMac is perfect. But if I decide to use a server, then I'd want the MacPro.

The new Mac Pro is even less well suited for server duty than the previous models. It's shape and vertical airflow pretty much rules out putting it in a rack. A lot of what you're paying for is 2 video cards that are pointless for almost all server duties. If your services are written to use multiple cores well, the new Mac Pro could handle many connections but if the software doesn't use multiple cores well, it wouldn't do as well. ECC RAM would be nice but it's hard to miss something you've never had.

For FileMaker Server specifically, I'm moving from an old Xserve to a Windows Server (it's actually a VM on a platform run at the university). I prefer Apache over IIS for the web so I'm still going to use an Xserve to run the FileMaker Web Publishing Engine (they don't officially support running WPE on one platform and Server on the other but there's no reason why it won't work). If I had to replace the Xserve, I'd probably buy a Mac Mini with OS X Server; even the maxed out config is $1000 less than the cheapest Mac Pro and you can put it anywhere, including a rack in a datacenter.




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Re: New MacPro storage

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Dr Digby L. James
In our previous episode (Friday, 20-Dec-2013), Dr Digby L. James said:
> Just looking to configure a new MacPro.
>
> Should I order with a 1TB drive, or go for the base drive and upgrade with third party storage (such as from OWC).

Does OWC have SSD drives for the MacPro? It's not a normal SSD.

I would, if I were to get a MacPro, upgrade the SSD from Apple to a 512GB.

> I plan to increase the memory from Crucial.

Yes, or DMS. Be aware, however, that you cannot mix 16GB modules with other modules (you can mix 4GB and 8GB modules, but if you have 16GB modules you may only have 16GB modules).


--
Mom: There was more than one lobster present at the birth of Jesus?
Daughter: Duh.




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Re: New MacPro storage

Curtis Wilcox
On Dec 21, 2013, at 6:47 PM, LuKreme <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does OWC have SSD drives for the MacPro? It's not a normal SSD.

I don't think anyone does yet. The OWC's Aura Pro kits for MacBook Airs and Retina MBPs are similar PCIe boards but not the same.

I'm sure 3rd party storage for the new Mac Pro will come along shortly. Unlike the MacBooks, the Mac Pro's storage is officially a user-replacable part. Looks even easier than replacing the RAM.

Mac Pro (Late 2013): Removing and installing flash storage
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT6061




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