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Opera sold

Norm Beazer

No doubt the choice of web browser is somewhat personal.  I currently like using Opera – it works well for me.  

But I am decidedly not happy that Opera has or soon will be sold to the Chinese.  I think I should look for an alternative browser soon.

I don’t fancy either Safari or Firefox for starters.  Google Chrome once was good but I have jettisoned that one too.  Yes, personal preference again. 

Briefly then, what are the best alternative web browsers out there ?



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Re: Opera sold

Al Varnell
Epic is getting most of the attention these days. It’s Chromium based with emphasis on Privacy, Speed and Security:

Have not had a chance to use it very much yet.

-Al-

On Feb 18, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Norm Beazer <[hidden email]> wrote:


No doubt the choice of web browser is somewhat personal.  I currently like using Opera – it works well for me.  

But I am decidedly not happy that Opera has or soon will be sold to the Chinese.  I think I should look for an alternative browser soon.

I don’t fancy either Safari or Firefox for starters.  Google Chrome once was good but I have jettisoned that one too.  Yes, personal preference again. 

Briefly then, what are the best alternative web browsers out there ?


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-Al-
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Al Varnell
Mountain View, CA







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Re: Opera sold

Doug Miller
In reply to this post by Norm Beazer

On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Norm Beazer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Briefly then, what are the best alternative web browsers out there ?

​Well, I know that you said that you don't like Firefox, but I suggest that you give it another try. It has lots of great extensions, it's frequently updated, has great privacy controls, and I find it to be both faster and more memory-efficient than Safari and Chrome on ​my computers (especially the older ones, where speed and RAM usage is particularly noticeable.) There is also a good Firefox sync service, if you want to use it, to keep settings, extensions, etc., synced between computers (as Google does so well with Chrome.)



Doug
​ Miller​



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Re: Opera sold

Alexander Forbes

On Feb 18, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Doug Miller <[hidden email]> wrote:

Well, I know that you said that you don't like Firefox, but I suggest that you give it another try. It has lots of great extensions, it's frequently updated, has great privacy controls, and I find it to be both faster and more memory-efficient than Safari and Chrome on ​my computers (especially the older ones, where speed and RAM usage is particularly noticeable.) There is also a good Firefox sync service, if you want to use it, to keep settings, extensions, etc., synced between computers (as Google does so well with Chrome.)

I agree. I use Firefox and keep it updated. Of course I have Safari too, and use it for things like cross-checking results on web development. But it was Firefox’s sync service and bookmark services that keep me on the Firefox side, besides the fact that I really like it.

I travel between two locations and if there is any Safari sync service, I could never get it to work. I hate working with months-old bookmarks. Neither app’s bookmark editing is perfect but I find Firefox’s easier to use and more responsive.

Lastly, I have vision issues as I say so often, and I find Apple’s current infatuation with grey-on-grey text and tabs, with little to visually differentiate one “object" from another, to be infuriating. FireFox is slightly easier to see and generally a pleasure to use. 




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Re: Opera sold

Kim Gammelgaard

Den 18. feb. 2016 kl. 19.38 skrev Alexander Forbes <[hidden email]>:

I travel between two locations and if there is any Safari sync service, I could never get it to work. I hate working with months-old bookmarks. Neither app’s bookmark editing is perfect but I find Firefox’s easier to use and more responsive.


I rely on Safari’s bookmarks and reading list and the sync perfectly between my iPhone and my two macs using iCloud. I just checked this, making a bookmark on my Macbook Pro, and within 5 seconds it was on my aging iMac and on my iPhone. 

I use Firefox for all my banking stuff, in order to separate the task, but don’t seem to like it as much as I have come to like Safari - especially now with Handoff, that also really just works. 

I dislike, though, that cmd-1 does no longer select the first bookmark in my favorites. I really miss that feature. 

Best regards

Kim



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Re: Opera sold

Richard Rettke

I rely on Safari’s bookmarks and reading list and the sync perfectly between my iPhone and my two macs using iCloud. I just checked this, making a bookmark on my Macbook Pro, and within 5 seconds it was on my aging iMac and on my iPhone. 

Agreed, Safari's bookmarks synced and instantly shared is an awesome feature which I use a lot between my iPad Air, Wife's iPad Mini, iPhone 6s+, MacBook Pro and 2 iMacs. Like most things Apple, it just works! If your's isn't, something is wrong.

I use Firefox for all my banking stuff, in order to separate the task, but don’t seem to like it as much as I have come to like Safari - especially now with Handoff, that also really just works. 

I have abandoned all 3rd party browser's, Opera (was a favorite), Firefox (was a favorite), Chrome (was a favorite) and others. Have settled on (that's settled on, not settled for) Safari because it is consistent and has decent support. The features I liked in other browsers seem to eventually make their way to Safari. Are their things I don't like, yes, but I can live with them.

I dislike, though, that cmd-1 does no longer select the first bookmark in my favorites. I really miss that feature. 

Hmm, I have 12 pinned tabs (when you pin a tab, only the icon is displayed as the tab) and cmd-1 though cmd-9 open the 1st 9 tabs respectively.

Regards,

Richard Rettke
Laus Deo
Non sibi sed patriae

https://about.me/rerettke




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Re: Opera sold

Papa Gordie
In reply to this post by Kim Gammelgaard
On Feb 18 2016 at 11:51:30 Kim Gammelgaard <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Den 18. feb. 2016 kl. 19.38 skrev Alexander Forbes <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> I travel between two locations and if there is any Safari sync service, I could never get it to work. I hate working with months-old bookmarks. Neither app’s bookmark editing is perfect but I find Firefox’s easier to use and more responsive.
>>
>
> I rely on Safari’s bookmarks and reading list and the sync perfectly between my iPhone and my two macs using iCloud. I just checked this, making a bookmark on my Macbook Pro, and within 5 seconds it was on my aging iMac and on my iPhone.
>
> I use Firefox for all my banking stuff, in order to separate the task, but don’t seem to like it as much as I have come to like Safari - especially now with Handoff, that also really just works.
>
> I dislike, though, that cmd-1 does no longer select the first bookmark in my favorites. I really miss that feature.

That is not typical if Command-1 does not work. It certainly continues to work for me in El Capitan and Safari 9.0.3. Do you perhaps have a folder of bookmarks in the first position on your Favourites bar? Do any other Command-(numbers) work to open a favourite in Safari? Afaict, Safari still only allows the first 9 real bookmarks on the Favourites Bar to be launched with the Command-number sequence but it ignores folders.

I enjoy the same as you do for Safari Bookmarks to sync via iCloud, but I also organize them automatically and alphabetically on my main iMac using Bookmacster first. The result is a nicely configured set of bookmarks that is the same across all my devices which works for me but may well not be what others want.

Gord


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Re: Opera sold

Alexander Forbes
In reply to this post by Kim Gammelgaard

On Feb 18, 2016, at 11:51 AM, Kim Gammelgaard <[hidden email]> wrote:

I rely on Safari’s bookmarks and reading list and the sync perfectly between my iPhone and my two macs using iCloud. I just checked this, making a bookmark on my Macbook Pro, and within 5 seconds it was on my aging iMac and on my iPhone. 

Thanks - I was remiss in not remembering that part of Safari sync did work for me. Your mention of the iPhone triggered it. I recently developed a “web app,” a cgi project formatted with displays sized for mobile devices. I developed it on a Mac Pro at location #1,   and tested in Safari and Firefox, bookmarking in each, using a 27” monitor. 

I was surprised and delighted to find the bookmark on my iPhone6 which is much easier than typing out a long url on the phone. But wait, there’s more:

So before sending this note off from location #2,  I checked the bookmarks on my iMac Safari here. The bookmark was there!

So, whatever complaints I had about Safari Sync at location #2 before (perhaps as recently as last fall or winter) seem to have evaporated. 

On other feature of Firefox only of much use to web developers is its ability to display page source code.

Regards,

Alex






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Re: Opera sold

Richard Rettke

On 18 Feb 2016, at 13:20, Alexander Forbes summitlake-at-icloud.com |TidbitsTalk Discussion Forum/TidbitsTalk Discussion Forum| wrote:

On other feature of Firefox only of much use to web developers is its ability to display page source code.

I think that is the optional Develop Menu, Opt-cmd-U in Safari

Richard Rettke
Laus Deo
Non sibi sed patriae

https://about.me/rerettke




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Re: Opera sold

Marc Zeedar-2
In reply to this post by Alexander Forbes

> On Feb 18, 2016, at 11:20 AM, Alexander Forbes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> On other feature of Firefox only of much use to web developers is its ability to display page source code.

You can easily do that in Safari by turning on the Developer menu in preferences.


Marc Zeedar
Publisher, xDev Magazine
www.xdevmag.com




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Re: Opera sold

Papa Gordie
In reply to this post by Alexander Forbes
On Feb 18 2016 at 12:20:34 Alexander Forbes <[hidden email]> wrote:
<snip>

> On other feature of Firefox only of much use to web developers is its ability to display page source code.

In Safari if you enable the Develop Menu you can view source:

Safari -> Preferences -> Advanced - Show develop menu in menu bar

Then, under the Develop Menu you can display a variety of things, including source which may be sufficient for your requirements.

Gord


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Re: Opera sold

David Ross
In reply to this post by Alexander Forbes
On 2/18/16 1:38 PM, Alexander Forbes wrote:
> Firefox and keep it updated.

And if you don't want to be a part of the update of the day club, (also
a Chrome issue), you can get the ESR version which only updates every 4
to 6 weeks or when a big security issue is fixed.

David


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Re: Opera sold

Alexander Forbes
In reply to this post by Richard Rettke

On Feb 18, 2016, at 12:25 PM, TidbitsTalk Discussion Forum <[hidden email]> wrote:

On other feature of Firefox only of much use to web developers is its ability to display page source code.

I think that is the optional Develop Menu, Opt-cmd-U in Safari


    "Here's how to enable the hidden Develop menu in Safari: Pull down the “Safari” menuand choose “Preferences” Click on the “Advanced” tab. Check the box next to “Show Develop menu in menu bar”Nov 3, 2011"





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Re: Opera sold

Alexander Forbes
In reply to this post by David Ross
1) Thanks everybody for the info on Safari Developer Menu. When I checked Safari Help with search term ‘Developer', it promptly found my bookmark for ‘Wordpress Developer’ and that’s all. Gosh, now it works just like FireFox!

2) "I don’t want to hear all your chest-thumping drivel about what a great choice I made, I just want to buy your dang product…"

On the Update-du-jour Club, I dont particularly mind the FireFox updates because they’re fast and comparatively nonintrusive. I don’t like landing on their web page telling me basically how fantastic it is that I did what I just did. Adobe and Microsoft are hands-down the most intrusive and mindlessly interactive, with Apple somewhere in between.

Cheers,

Alex


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Re: Opera sold

Chris Poterala
In reply to this post by Norm Beazer
Why leave Opera simply because they might change ownership?

lf it works for you, it works for you.

Chris
chris poterala - [hidden email]
http://twitter.com/potsie


On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 1:15 PM, Norm Beazer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> No doubt the choice of web browser is somewhat personal.  I currently like
> using Opera – it works well for me.
>
> But I am decidedly not happy that Opera has or soon will be sold to the
> Chinese.  I think I should look for an alternative browser soon.
>
> I don’t fancy either Safari or Firefox for starters.  Google Chrome once was
> good but I have jettisoned that one too.  Yes, personal preference again.
>
> Briefly then, what are the best alternative web browsers out there ?
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Re: Opera sold

Norm Beazer
In reply to this post by Norm Beazer
good question

Take a look at some comments here – search on “Opera”

http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/applications/index.html#d18feb2016

The question (for me) is, do I trust the particular Chinese companies involved ?   I don’t.  Paranoia ?  probably.  

But a good enough reason to look at the alternatives.  With the comments made I intend to revisit several recommendations again.  Each have their plus and minus features.  Opera is fast, which I like.  I think some browsers are worth spending time on to tease out settings to customise to one’s own preference.  I think I maybe haven’t spent enough time on Safari or Firefox, in particular.





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Re: Opera sold

Norm Beazer
In reply to this post by Norm Beazer
Sorry – reply dropped down below

thanks


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Re: Opera sold

Doug Hogg
In reply to this post by David Ross
I had to look up Firefox ESR version:
Extended Release Version.
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/

:-)

Doug Hogg

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 18, 2016, at 11:49 AM, David Ross <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> On 2/18/16 1:38 PM, Alexander Forbes wrote:
>> Firefox and keep it updated.
>
> And if you don't want to be a part of the update of the day club, (also a Chrome issue), you can get the ESR version which only updates every 4 to 6 weeks or when a big security issue is fixed.
>
> David
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Re: Opera sold

@lbutlr
In reply to this post by Norm Beazer
On Feb 18, 2016, at 11:15 AM, Norm Beazer <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Briefly then, what are the best alternative web browsers out there ?

There are only three (and a half) viable browsers, and you’ve dismissed the three. That leaves you the half, Microsoft Edge.

Anything else out there is based on Safari or Chrome.

I used Safari and keep Chrome around as a backup. I also have Firefox on one machine.


--
And I just don't care what happens next / looks like freedom but it
feels like death / it's something in between, I guess




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Re: Opera sold

Norm Beazer
In reply to this post by Norm Beazer
thanks

I figured that !  I will revisit Firefox and Safari.




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