TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

adamengst
Administrator
I’d been trying to login for several weeks without success, including clicking on the link to reset my password. Entered my e-mail address and . . . nothing. But I have now clicked on the link above and I’m in. Perhaps it just needed more patience on my part.

In the first week, we had email delivery problems related to our SendGrid account using a shared pool of IP addresses, and some of those addresses turning out to be on spam RBL lists. I addressed that by upgrading to a more expensive account that provides a dedicated IP address, which radically reduced the problem of spam filters. So I’m hoping that was the issue…

cheers... -Adam



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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

adamengst
Administrator
In reply to this post by dianed143@comcast.net
OK, I got my account set up and I can see posts. I followed the steps to get setup with email delivery. This was a couple of hours ago and I have yet to see any emails come through and I do see new posts on the site.

For you to get email, you need to be “watching” the TidBITS Talk category. So go to:


and in the upper right corner, just under your avatar picture and next to the New Topic button, there’s an icon (I can’t predict what it will look like for you offhand, since it reflects what’s chosen inside). Click it and choose Watching.
 
What is the email addy to send new emails to (for the list)?

 Hmm, it’s not working at the moment, so bear with me while I look into that.

And I never got any info on video training - is there a link?

It’s not a video, it’s a conversation with discobot, which is a robot user that walks you through using Discourse features interactively. I believe (and again, I did this months ago and still need to do it again with a new user to see) that this is what happens when you first log in. The screen will be dark, and you click the one bright thing on it — your avatar, and then click the Greetings! (now reworded to “Hi! Here are some tips and tricks.”) message that appears in the menu.

I think you can start the process again by doing just that — click your avatar and then click the Greetings message in the menu. You’ll actually be doing things in Discourse, like creating messages, liking messages, and so on, but it’s all in a private conversation with discobot.

cheers... -Adam




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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

Mark R. Williamson
Discobot got hung up asking me for an emoji and not accepting one, going so far as to pursue me from the website to email. After the second emoji was ignored, I gave up on discobot and the website in general. Luckily, I got email working first. 

Mark W from my iPhone

On Apr 14, 2018, at 12:17 PM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:

OK, I got my account set up and I can see posts. I followed the steps to get setup with email delivery. This was a couple of hours ago and I have yet to see any emails come through and I do see new posts on the site.

For you to get email, you need to be “watching” the TidBITS Talk category. So go to:


and in the upper right corner, just under your avatar picture and next to the New Topic button, there’s an icon (I can’t predict what it will look like for you offhand, since it reflects what’s chosen inside). Click it and choose Watching.
 
What is the email addy to send new emails to (for the list)?

 Hmm, it’s not working at the moment, so bear with me while I look into that.

And I never got any info on video training - is there a link?

It’s not a video, it’s a conversation with discobot, which is a robot user that walks you through using Discourse features interactively. I believe (and again, I did this months ago and still need to do it again with a new user to see) that this is what happens when you first log in. The screen will be dark, and you click the one bright thing on it — your avatar, and then click the Greetings! (now reworded to “Hi! Here are some tips and tricks.”) message that appears in the menu.

I think you can start the process again by doing just that — click your avatar and then click the Greetings message in the menu. You’ll actually be doing things in Discourse, like creating messages, liking messages, and so on, but it’s all in a private conversation with discobot.

cheers... -Adam



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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

dianed143@comcast.net
In reply to this post by adamengst

On Apr 14, 2018, at 1:17 PM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:

OK, I got my account set up and I can see posts. I followed the steps to get setup with email delivery. This was a couple of hours ago and I have yet to see any emails come through and I do see new posts on the site.

For you to get email, you need to be “watching” the TidBITS Talk category. So go to:


and in the upper right corner, just under your avatar picture and next to the New Topic button, there’s an icon (I can’t predict what it will look like for you offhand, since it reflects what’s chosen inside). Click it and choose Watching.

I don’t have anything under my Avatar pic beside the New Topic button but I do appear to be getting emails so that ok.

Thanks for the rest of the info! :)

Diane



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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

adamengst
Administrator
In reply to this post by Mark R. Williamson
Discobot got hung up asking me for an emoji and not accepting one, going so far as to pursue me from the website to email. After the second emoji was ignored, I gave up on discobot and the website in general. Luckily, I got email working first. 

Sigh… Hard to troubleshoot these one-time processes…

cheers... -Adam



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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

adamengst
Administrator
In reply to this post by Curtis Wilcox
I have a custom domain hosted by Gmail that I check through IMAP using Mail (macOS Sierra). My old TidBITS filter doesn't match the Discourse message so they're all going to my Inbox right now. My Inbox is set to Organize by Conversation, which almost always works for the Mailman email threads, but so far isn't working for Discourse emails. Well, it sort of is, if someone writes more than one comment about the same subject, all their messages will collapse under a triangle; that's actually worse than no threading because an old comment by User A could be listed after a much newer comment by User B if User A made another comment after that.

Isn’t that what you’d expect for threading — all messages in a particular topic in a specific conversation?

In High Sierra, anyway, clicking the conversation in the middle bar seems to display everything correctly in the main pane. If this were a discussion on Discourse, I’d include a screenshot. :-)
 
Does someone have a suggestion for a Gmail filter rule to reliably apply a "Tidbits" label to all the messages? I think Subject contains "tidbits" would have false positives; if I forward a Discourse message to someone and they reply, their reply should not get the "Tidbits" label.

Two things:

* First, there’s a List-ID header:


 if you tell Gmail’s Web client to Filter Messages List this, it creates a filter that looks for:


The List-ID header will vary by category, so it’s a good way of filtering different categories (like Article Comments) separately, if you want.

* Second, all the messages come from [hidden email]. That’s actually a little funny because I have enabled replies to messages (not working right at the moment) and when you do reply to a message, it goes to [hidden email].  This From header will apply to all messages from Discourse, so if you end up watching or tracking other categories or topics, they’ll match this too.
 
I haven't tried replying by email, I'll probably do most replying (and maybe reading) of comments on the web. The email will serve as a notification. I love RSS so maybe that'll be better for reading comments and being notified they exist. Looking at the Latest Posts feed (https://talk.tidbits.com/posts.rss), there's only about 15 messages and I think it's incomplete, the oldest message in the feed is from 11:15am(Eastern time, I think), but there are newer comments than that in the If iPads were meant for kids thread that are not in the RSS feed.


You can add .rss to the end of any URL in Discourse to see that page via RSS. So, for just TidBITS Talk, you’d want:


Or, to get the Latest posts (which would also include article comments), you’d use:

 
My previous experience with Discourse has been comment threads linked to from articles on BoingBoing and Talking Points Memo. For an Article -> Comment workflow, it works very well, is a natural progression from TidBITS's previous web comments, and very much an improvement. But it's very different from a mailing list. 

Yes, although I’m on one or two Discourse forums that I interact with entirely via email, so I think it can be done. The setup is different, of course. I could move everyone over to Discourse by brute force, but I really fear that will confuse a lot of people so I’ve been encouraging manual signups.

It’s possible that the brute force import will be the better part of valor, but there are enough people here that I don’t want to just jump in and do it. Especially since everyone should have a TidBITS account too, and I’d really prefer that everyone log into that instead, since then Discourse login is just a click thanks to single-sign-on.
 
Going to the talk.tidbits.com homepage to discover new topics, especially ones not initiated by a new article, is very different from mailing lists; it's more like a web bulletin board forum. I was thinking I had little prior experience following (typically finding my way to a web forum by searching for a specific topic) but I guess I have been in an online class that used Piazza, which has some things in common (though there I was obligated to read everything) and there's a specific service at work that uses getsatisfaction.com for a web forum (though it's something I look at maybe weekly, not daily, and most topics I skim without opening).

Discourse very much enables a completionist approach — I can take a spin through in the Web interface and be confident that I’ve seen everything. I believe that if you just set TidBITS Talk to “watching,” and don’t watch or track anything else, it will focus on that category.

Though, of course, the entire point of this system is to combine our article comments and general discussions, since if someone goes off topic in an article comment, I can move it to TidBITS Talk with ease. 

cheers... -Adam



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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

Louise Olson
In reply to this post by dianed143@comcast.net

>> For you to get email, you need to be “watching” the TidBITS Talk
>> category. So go to:
>>
>> https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk
>> <https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk>
>>
>> and in the upper right corner, just under your avatar picture and next
>> to the New Topic button, there’s an icon (I can’t predict what it will
>> look like for you offhand, since it reflects what’s chosen inside).
>> Click it and choose Watching.
>
> I don’t have anything under my Avatar pic beside the New Topic button but
> I do appear to be getting emails so that ok.
>
,

Finally I could help with something. It's the small square next to (right)
the New Topic  If you choose watch, it turns it into an exclamation point
(at least for me).  Anyway that little circle in the square has a menu
where you choose different options.


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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

dianed143@comcast.net

> On Apr 14, 2018, at 5:47 PM, Louise Olson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>>> For you to get email, you need to be “watching” the TidBITS Talk
>>> category. So go to:
>>>
>>> https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk
>>> <https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk>
>>>
>>> and in the upper right corner, just under your avatar picture and next
>>> to the New Topic button, there’s an icon (I can’t predict what it will
>>> look like for you offhand, since it reflects what’s chosen inside).
>>> Click it and choose Watching.
>>
>> I don’t have anything under my Avatar pic beside the New Topic button but
>> I do appear to be getting emails so that ok.
>>
> ,
>
> Finally I could help with something. It's the small square next to (right)
> the New Topic  If you choose watch, it turns it into an exclamation point
> (at least for me).  Anyway that little circle in the square has a menu
> where you choose different options.




Got it!! Thanks so much  :)

Diane




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Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

dianed143@comcast.net
In reply to this post by Louise Olson

> On Apr 14, 2018, at 5:47 PM, Louise Olson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>>> For you to get email, you need to be “watching” the TidBITS Talk
>>> category. So go to:
>>>
>>> https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk
>>> <https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk>
>>>
>>> and in the upper right corner, just under your avatar picture and next
>>> to the New Topic button, there’s an icon (I can’t predict what it will
>>> look like for you offhand, since it reflects what’s chosen inside).
>>> Click it and choose Watching.
>>
>> I don’t have anything under my Avatar pic beside the New Topic button but
>> I do appear to be getting emails so that ok.
>>
> ,
>
> Finally I could help with something. It's the small square next to (right)
> the New Topic  If you choose watch, it turns it into an exclamation point
> (at least for me).  Anyway that little circle in the square has a menu
> where you choose different options.


Ok I thought I was crazy. I did see the square last night when I read your email. I swore I hadn’t seen it earlier but there it was staring me in the face.

I logged in again today and it’s definitely NOT there.

Diane






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Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

Jerry King
Sorry Adam but I don’t seem to be receiving Discourse messages either unless there haven’t been any today.

Jerry


Jerry


> On Apr 15, 2018, at 7:26 PM, Diane <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
>> On Apr 14, 2018, at 5:47 PM, Louise Olson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> For you to get email, you need to be “watching” the TidBITS Talk
>>>> category. So go to:
>>>>
>>>> https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk
>>>> <https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk>
>>>>
>>>> and in the upper right corner, just under your avatar picture and next
>>>> to the New Topic button, there’s an icon (I can’t predict what it will
>>>> look like for you offhand, since it reflects what’s chosen inside).
>>>> Click it and choose Watching.
>>>
>>> I don’t have anything under my Avatar pic beside the New Topic button but
>>> I do appear to be getting emails so that ok.
>>>
>> ,
>>
>> Finally I could help with something. It's the small square next to (right)
>> the New Topic  If you choose watch, it turns it into an exclamation point
>> (at least for me).  Anyway that little circle in the square has a menu
>> where you choose different options.
>
>
> Ok I thought I was crazy. I did see the square last night when I read your email. I swore I hadn’t seen it earlier but there it was staring me in the face.
>
> I logged in again today and it’s definitely NOT there.
>
> Diane
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
> Post only when you have something substantive to contribute.
> Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
> Quote sparingly, if at all. We all read the previous message.
> Start threads with a new message to [hidden email].
> Read archives at: http://sparky.tidbits.com/pipermail/tidbits-talk/
> Unsubscribe at: http://sparky.tidbits.com/mailman/options/tidbits-talk
> ____Mailing List Manners: http://tidbits.com/series/1141 ____



____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

David Brostoff-2
In reply to this post by dianed143@comcast.net
On Apr 15, 2018, at 4:26 PM, Diane <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Ok I thought I was crazy. I did see the square last night when I read your email. I swore I hadn’t seen it earlier but there it was staring me in the face.
>
> I logged in again today and it’s definitely NOT there.

I share your frustration -- it took me quite a while to figure out how to navigate the site even minimally.

In the drop-down menu nder the TidBITS logo on the left, you have to choose one of the "categories."

If you have "all categories" selected, the square disappears.

David





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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

Curtis Wilcox
In reply to this post by adamengst
On Apr 14, 2018, at 2:48 PM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:

Isn’t that what you’d expect for threading — all messages in a particular topic in a specific conversation?


It's only threading messages that have the same subject *and* the same author (same name before the 'noreply' address). This is Mail.app 10.3 (3273) on macOS Sierra 10.12.6 with all updates installed. It's fine in iOS Mail (11).

I don't know which headers Sierra Mail uses when threading. If no one else has the problem, the only thing that's different about me is probably that my subscribed address is a Gmail mailbox that forwards everything to my "real" Gmail mailbox, maybe that changes the headers in a way that confuses Mail. If others using Sierra Mail have the problem, it's a wild guess but maybe it uses the References header but is screwed up by the presence of forward slashes in the addresses. 


* Second, all the messages come from [hidden email]. That’s actually a little funny because I have enabled replies to messages (not working right at the moment) and when you do reply to a message, it goes to [hidden email].  This From header will apply to all messages from Discourse, so if you end up watching or tracking other categories or topics, they’ll match this too.


From: [hidden email] should be fine for me.


I haven't tried replying by email, I'll probably do most replying (and maybe reading) of comments on the web. The email will serve as a notification. I love RSS so maybe that'll be better for reading comments and being notified they exist. Looking at the Latest Posts feed (https://talk.tidbits.com/posts.rss), there's only about 15 messages and I think it's incomplete, the oldest message in the feed is from 11:15am(Eastern time, I think), but there are newer comments than that in the If iPads were meant for kids thread that are not in the RSS feed.


You can add .rss to the end of any URL in Discourse to see that page via RSS. So, for just TidBITS Talk, you’d want:


Or, to get the Latest posts (which would also include article comments), you’d use:



In the page source, it's says title="Latest topics" href="https://talk.tidbits.com/latest.rss". It looks like it's only the first message on each topic (including articles), there are no further comments. I think he other URL I found, https://talk.tidbits.com/posts.rss, is both new topics and comments on existing comments. I'm not sure how many posts the feed includes, the quantity seems to be different on different days so maybe it's all the posts in the past X hours.




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Be polite and constructive, and comment on posts, not people.
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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

Jolin Warren
In reply to this post by adamengst
First of all, thanks so much Adam for all your work on the new TB and TB Talk sites. I'm maybe different to most on here in that I had actually stopped participating in TB Talk for the past 18 months as my email was too overwhelming, and I never got my TB Talk mailbox set up on my phone or iPad (I came back to TB Talk in the past couple of weeks to make sure I didn't miss any transition-related info). I find the Discourse web interface much more manageable for scanning through and checking out new topics. So the switch has enabled me to rejoin this great community. :-)

At 19:52 on Fri 13 Apr 2018, Adam Engst wrote:
Talk archives for many years, one built into Mailman and the other at Nabble.

Largely irrelevant now, but I can't believe I never knew about the Nabble version of the TB Talk archives. It would have saved me a lot of pain the few times I've looked for something in the archives over the years. Ah, well!

I ran a couple of Mailman lists a decade ago, and it was good software for its time, but my stress greatly reduced when I was able to drop them. Even small lists (a couple dozen people) required a _lot_ of admin. Here's to your mailing list-free future!

See you on Discourse. ;-)

Cheers,
Jolin



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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

Jolin Warren
In reply to this post by dianed143@comcast.net
At 15:48 on Sat 14 Apr 2018, Diane wrote:
And I never got any info on video training - is there a link?

See this post on Discourse for how to run the tutorial:


Cheers,
Jolin



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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

adamengst
Administrator
In reply to this post by Curtis Wilcox
In the page source, it's says title="Latest topics" href="https://talk.tidbits.com/latest.rss". It looks like it's only the first message on each topic (including articles), there are no further comments. I think he other URL I found, https://talk.tidbits.com/posts.rss, is both new topics and comments on existing comments. I'm not sure how many posts the feed includes, the quantity seems to be different on different days so maybe it's all the posts in the past X hours.

Interestingly, there are no settings in Discourse for RSS; it just happens automatically, so we’d have to ask in https://meta.discourse.org/ to find out more about how it all works.

cheers... -Adam



____________TidBITS Talk Participation Guidelines____________
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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

adamengst
Administrator
In reply to this post by Jerry King
Sorry Adam but I don’t seem to be receiving Discourse messages either unless there haven’t been any today. 

I see messages sent to you in SendGrid, but they’re all for TidBITS article comment topics. (If you didn’t even get those, check your spam folder.)

For TidBITS Talk, you need to be “watching” the category. So go to


And click the button to the right of New Topic. I’m guessing it will be a black circle with a white interior. Change it to Watching, so it has a white exclamation point inside a blue circle.

cheers... -Adam




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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

Louise Olson
In reply to this post by dianed143@comcast.net

On Sun, April 15, 2018 7:26 pm, Diane wrote:

>
>> On Apr 14, 2018, at 5:47 PM, Louise Olson <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> For you to get email, you need to be “watching” the TidBITS Talk
>>>> category. So go to:
>>>>
>>>> https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk
>>>> <https://talk.tidbits.com/c/tidbits-talk>
>>>>
>>>> and in the upper right corner, just under your avatar picture and next
>>>> to the New Topic button, there’s an icon (I can’t predict what it will
>>>> look like for you offhand, since it reflects what’s chosen inside).
>>>> Click it and choose Watching.
>>>
>>> I don’t have anything under my Avatar pic beside the New Topic button
>>> but
>>> I do appear to be getting emails so that ok.
>>>
>> ,
>>
>> Finally I could help with something. It's the small square next to
>> (right)
>> the New Topic  If you choose watch, it turns it into an exclamation
>> point
>> (at least for me).  Anyway that little circle in the square has a menu
>> where you choose different options.
>
>
> Ok I thought I was crazy. I did see the square last night when I read your
> email. I swore I hadn’t seen it earlier but there it was staring me in the
> face.
>
> I logged in again today and it’s definitely NOT there.
>
> Diane
>
>
Funny ... the same thing happened to me.  When I read that you found it, I
looked over at the page I was on and it was no longer there.  I hope you
got to set what you wanted while it was still there! :)


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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

adamengst
Administrator
Funny ... the same thing happened to me.  When I read that you found it, I
looked over at the page I was on and it was no longer there.  I hope you
got to set what you wanted while it was still there! :)

Could you have logged out? If you’re not logged in, you can’t create new topics or watch topics.

cheers... -Adam 



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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

dianed143@comcast.net

On Apr 16, 2018, at 5:15 PM, Adam Engst <[hidden email]> wrote:

Funny ... the same thing happened to me.  When I read that you found it, I
looked over at the page I was on and it was no longer there.  I hope you
got to set what you wanted while it was still there! :)

Could you have logged out? If you’re not logged in, you can’t create new topics or watch topics.

I am definitely logged in, I see my avatar and notifications up there. I did set it to “watch” when I saw the square.

I thought someone figured out how to find that setting again but I have since forgotten. Blame it on a day in TurboTax.

I am using Safari.

Diane




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Re: TidBITS Talk transition to Discourse

David Brostoff-2
On Apr 16, 2018, at 4:04 PM, Diane <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I am definitely logged in, I see my avatar and notifications up there. I did set it to “watch” when I saw the square.
>
> I thought someone figured out how to find that setting again but I have since forgotten. Blame it on a day in TurboTax.

You may have missed my previous reply to you about this:

In the drop-down menu under the TidBITS logo on the left, you have to choose one of the "categories."

If you have "all categories" selected, the square disappears.

David




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